Humble Beginnings Options

[method`]

Greetings ladies and gents. So after wanting to create a machinima for ages, I finally got a computer that was able not only to run WoW at full settings without hardware lag, but also able to film and multitask with video editing programs. I have looked at a few tutorials, and after limited experimentation, I have really run into a few roadblocks (=/) that I am hoping this fine community can help me with. And sorry if some of these questions have apparent or obvious answers, and I am also sorry if some of these questions have been asked elsewhere, I am still new to this whole thing =/

- I am using Model/Mapviwer, vegas 8 Pro, and Fraps.

1. Is it impossible to get 2 characters into WoW Model Viwer at the same time? I know people have to use 2 layers, but I am wondering if there is a way to get the characters to interact on one layer.

2. I have seen tutorials use static backgrounds, usually a screenshot of some landscape. The machinima I plan to make is relatively ambitious, and I plan to have fight scenes, etc. In such a machinima, will I find myself needing to film the background in some sort of motion, and then sync that motion up with the character to produce a realistic flow to the camera? Or are screenshots pretty much standard, and less is more in machinima?

3. If anyone has tips when to use a static screenshot background v.s. a moving filmed background I would appreciate it.

4. How do I remove a bluescreen in Vegas 8 pro? I used the chromakey effect in vegas, and I always get some of the bluescreen left over (when i highlight areas over the preview window with my mouse), is there any additional steps I need to take, or do I just drag the blue screen chroma key effect to the clip that has a blue screen and thats it?

5. When I tried removing a bluescreen and adding a background, all I got was a slightly more transparent bluescreen over my background. How do I composite 2 layers together? Do I need to set the background to a specific layer and just overlay everything else, or is there something else that needs to be done?

6.. Do I need Adobe After Effects to make good quality work? And is this compatible with Vegas, or should I start off with Adobe Premier Pro so I wouldn't have to migrate later?

7. Any general tips on creating Machinima? Lastly, can someone either point me to a place where I can look at someone's workflow, or give me an example of their own (using sony vegas), I would appreciate it. I just need to know how to "think" when I am editing. I know how to film the footage, and organize it, etc. But I do not know how I should get started. All I need is an example of how someone creates 1 scene (not too simple that it's not very informative, but not too complex that it's overwhelming) and I will draw enough information out of that to really know how to get started.

I thank everyone in advance, and looking at this list after I wrote it...wow. Sorry for burdening you with all of these questions, but I thank you in advance for having the patience to answer one or more of them.

Note: Yes my machinima project is quite ambitious, but I plan to start out smaller so that I can get the fundamentals, and get used to the tools I am working with. This is to alleviate any comments suggesting me to start smaller, because that is my original plan. But I am only starting smaller so I can eventually work up to this challenging level.

[Sedrin of slashd...]

Heya method, welcome to the forums. I want to answer some of your specific questions, but keep in mind that being new is no excuse to go research these answers yourself. Hopefully you know that there are pages and pages and posts and threads that have all sorts of useful advice. I would spend at least an hour just digging through it all, following links and see what they have to offer, before you ask for "general tips". Once you start getting more experience with the tools, you'll be able to come back with specific questions about specific things you're trying to accomplish.


1. No.

2. Make the machinima you want. Attempting motion control between background and composite shots sounds tricky, but I'm sure it can be done, and you could probably pull off some neat shots that way.

3. You'll usually have the camera moving when 1) you're setting the scene, or B) the subject of your shot is moving very quickly. Trying to match your modelviewed shots to a moving background when it's not really necessary ... well, that's just more work for you, isn't it?

4. I don't use Vegas, so I can't answer specifically. But every keying tool I use will have at least a little blue (or green or red) left over. If you can find something like a simple choke matte, or choke tool of some sort ... that takes the result of your chroma key and "cinches" the edges of that inwards just a little tiny bit, hopefully cutting off any blue edges.

...

6. I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what software you use: the real quality of machinima comes from the idea, from the story... so long as your video adequately communicates that awesome idea, it's not a huge deal if it looks like crap. That said, I do use After Effects because I think it's the most versatile choice. It's perfectly compatible with Vegas in that it just outputs raw video. You can take that and put it into any editing suite that takes standard video files.

[Fedelis]

1. Is it impossible to get 2 characters into WoW Model Viwer at the same time? I know people have to use 2 layers, but I am wondering if there is a way to get the characters to interact on one layer.

I believe it is impossible. Don't quote me on that though.

2. I have seen tutorials use static backgrounds, usually a screenshot of some landscape. The machinima I plan to make is relatively ambitious, and I plan to have fight scenes, etc. In such a machinima, will I find myself needing to film the background in some sort of motion, and then sync that motion up with the character to produce a realistic flow to the camera? Or are screenshots pretty much standard, and less is more in machinima?

You can do video shots, they just happen to be a bit more tricky. I do video shots in my work, though I've published none of my work to date because I don't think it's up to par with my standards.

3. If anyone has tips when to use a static screenshot background v.s. a moving filmed background I would appreciate it.

It's really tricky to pull off if you are doing fast paced action stuff. Easier to pull off with like... behind character follows through the landscape. I suggest starting off with the slower stuff and then moving up to the fast paced action stuff. Practice makes perfect.

4. How do I remove a bluescreen in Vegas 8 pro? I used the chromakey effect in vegas, and I always get some of the bluescreen left over (when i highlight areas over the preview window with my mouse), is there any additional steps I need to take, or do I just drag the blue screen chroma key effect to the clip that has a blue screen and thats it?

Make sure you are removing the same color blue. In WoW model viewer go to View>Background Color. There should be 3 values with colors next to them on the right of the window. Make sure Red and Green are at 0 while Blue is at 255. Open up Vegas and the shot you want to key the background out of. Right click the shot and select Video Event FX. Click Chroma Keyer and select Okay. You will see bars of colors with triangles under them. The bars of color will be next to the letters R, G, B. Move the triangles under R and G's bars all the way left, and the one under B's all the way to the right. You should notice that the numbers towards the bottom go to 0, 0, 255. Alternatively you could have just typed those values into those spaces. The keyer is now set to the exact blue that WoW Model Viewer was set to and the blue should be completely keyed out. If there are still specs of blue about try moving the Low Threshold's arrow a little to the right. If you move it too much you might make your character look a little messed up, so try to move it as little as possible.


5. When I tried removing a bluescreen and adding a background, all I got was a slightly more transparent bluescreen over my background. How do I composite 2 layers together? Do I need to set the background to a specific layer and just overlay everything else, or is there something else that needs to be done?

See answer 4.

6.. Do I need Adobe After Effects to make good quality work? And is this compatible with Vegas, or should I start off with Adobe Premier Pro so I wouldn't have to migrate later?

After Effects isn't really required, thought it helps a lot. They are not compatable, but you can render the Vegas file in an extremely high quality and import it to AAE, then edit it like that. I personally don't use After Effects. I can normally find ways to do things without it. After Effects is just too complicated for me, I'd have to read an entire book to understand it.

7. Any general tips on creating Machinima? Lastly, can someone either point me to a place where I can look at someone's workflow, or give me an example of their own (using sony vegas), I would appreciate it. I just need to know how to "think" when I am editing. I know how to film the footage, and organize it, etc. But I do not know how I should get started. All I need is an example of how someone creates 1 scene (not too simple that it's not very informative, but not too complex that it's overwhelming) and I will draw enough information out of that to really know how to get started.

I know you asked for Vegas, but this shows the steps taken really in making a machinima. http://www.wegame.com/user/Oxhorn/videos/page3/ Pages 3 to 1 have tutorials by Oxhorn who you may be familiar. Maybe I should do a quick tutorial when I get home. I'm out of town currently.


Edit: Also, I forgot to mention that 90% of the more well known machinima makers don't use wow map viewer. A lot of them use Private servers. You can make a private server EXTREMELY easily. Just go to youtube and search "how to make a private server". You'll probably want to install a second WoW on your machine though, as current private server tutorials only work for 2.4.2 even though they say they'll work for 2.4.3

[Sedrin of slashd...]

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention that 90% of the more well known machinima makers don't use wow map viewer. A lot of them use Private servers.

Private servers are against Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement, and you risk losing your account by using one. I'm only sure about myself, but I have good faith that machinimators such as Oxhorn, Olibith, Stone Falcon, and Rufus Cubed primarily employ compositing footage from ModelViewer or similar read-and-display-only programs.

[Pinkhair]

You will be glad to have Vegas when it comes time to work with sound- after effects is miserable at it.

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention that 90% of the more well known machinima makers don't use wow map viewer. A lot of them use Private servers. You can make a private server EXTREMELY easily. Just go to youtube and search "how to make a private server". You'll probably want to install a second WoW on your machine though, as current private server tutorials only work for 2.4.2 even though they say they'll work for 2.4.3

I would disagree on that percentage- Even machinima artists who have access to a private server often use map viewer depending on the shot.

Be aware though, that the map viewer can eat more resources than wow itself while providing lower quality. On the other hand, you can have fairly precise control and can even record long or complex camera moves frame by frame, as Oxhorn initially did when he was using an ancient laptop to produce his movies.

In game footage on live servers can be well used as well.

[Fedelis]

Private servers are against Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement, and you risk losing your account by using one. I'm only sure about myself, but I have good faith that machinimators such as Oxhorn, Olibith, Stone Falcon, and Rufus Cubed primarily employ compositing footage from ModelViewer or similar read-and-display-only programs.

Blizzard really doesn't care about private servers unless you charge to play on the server. WoWScape would have been shut down ages ago if Blizzard really cared. Also, I know that 90% is a made up stat, but a lot of them do, such as Baron Soosdon. With private servers a Machinimist can use a GM account to fly and set their speed. Couple this with playing in first person and you have a very nice camera. Also Mapviewer has certain things wrong with it that Private servers don't. And with Machinima Tool having JUST been released, the use of private servers will only increase among machinimists.

Also in regards to Oxhorn not using P-servers. Well at 6:45 in this video he shows the disadvantage of using map viewer. It just doesn't load and texture everything correctly.

Oh and grats pink, for the Synergy win with the baron